Cita de: Guille21 en Octubre 03, 2022, 12:57:51 AM
Acojonado he quedado....

The 2023 Niro is a significantly revised model, not just the facelift applied to the Kona last year.
It's well-understood in the automotive media that the 2023 Niro has a 30% reduced torque rating on the motor.
Kia suggest that it's to "improve the driving experience" but in my opinion it's intended to reduce gearbox warranty claims.
I believe you have nothing to worry about.  All the reviews are excellent regarding power and acceleration and Kia are well-aware of the issues present on the earlier model and would have corrected them.

Cita de: CR123 en Agosto 16, 2022, 04:27:07 PM
En este video de YouTube hacen una prueba de introducir un imán en el líquido de la reductora para ver si encuentra restos de partículas.
https://youtu.be/l2MHyy4ISrg

There are two potential reasons why no particles were found on the magnet dropped into the old oil in that video, noting that I've personally found the same result when trying the same test on my used oil at 19,000 km.  The first and most likely is that steel particles lose their magnetic attraction quickly when crushed repeatedly.  I suspect that it takes less than one hour of circulation for this to happen based on one oil change reported at only 142 km which showed about half the visible particles present had become non-magnetic.
The second reason is that the oil discolouration may be primarily due to wear of aluminium parts rather than steel shed from gear teeth. As I mentioned in my post above, the aluminium contamination probably comes from bearing outer race 'spin' in the aluminium housing.  I suspect that the bearing on the gearbox input shaft nearest the motor is the most likely source.  We have seen that the oil in roughly 10% of first time oil changes is not actually discoloured black, yet there are still visible black particles present. In those rare cases I think there is no bearing race spin taking place.

I'm assuming we haven't heard anything about the original poster's outcome but I'm leaning towards radial misalignment between the motor and gearbox as being the most likely root cause of the tapping noise. This is based on the information in the Hyundai TSB that indicates assembly of those parts should be carried out while positioned vertically.  Had the problem been insufficient axial clearance they could have provided a shim to correct that or suggested that the clearance be checked.

So, it's perhaps just a matter of bad luck if the tapping noise affects your particular car and we know that both parts need to be replaced for an effective solution, presumably due to spline damage. I'm still not clear if the contaminated oil is related to this problem in any way but clean oil is always essential for quiet operation and a long lifetime.

Link to TSB: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10211676-0001.pdf

I'll add the latest news today, a Kona owner in Boston, USA found that the OEM internal magnet in the gear reducer is non-magnetic by poking a paperclip into the drain opening.  The same owner also photographed it to prove it's there.

It seems bizarre omission but I'm accepting that this is the root cause of the dirty gearbox oil problem I've been chasing down for six months with considerable credit going to all the owners who have contributed to the investigation.

We've had a half dozen oil changes reported in the last few weeks, about 20 in total since last November.  Every owner who had a magnetic drain plug installed returned clean oil, all of those that didn't returned dirty oil.

I'm happy that those statistics indicate a strong reason to recommend for owners to add a magnetic plug.

Con respecto al eNiro 2023, estoy seguro de que escucharemos más sobre esto a medida que pase el tiempo.  Un periodista en YouTube afirma que es porque Kia quería reducir la aceleración para que la conducción fuera más cómoda.

En cualquier caso, mi interés es entender si la razón proporcionada a Malian por la falla de la caja de cambios del Kona es la causa raíz real, o es solo una suposición de alguien.  La causa de la interferencia axial no se ha planteado antes en otros foros de Kona y el nuevo TSB de Hyundai (enlace a continuación) destinado a abordar este problema no menciona esta causa ni verifica el aceite de engranajes.

Desde noviembre de 2021, yo mismo y casi otros 20 propietarios de Kona en todo el mundo hemos cambiado el aceite de engranajes y el 100 % lo ha encontrado negro y con partículas.  Son coches construidos desde 2018 hasta 2022. En algunos casos el cambio se hace a partir de los 3000 km, en otros a los 100 000 km.

El aceite negro nunca es una condición normal en una caja de cambios simple y ciertamente no en kilómetros bajos.  La causa raíz no está determinada, pero creo que está claro que la negrura probablemente proviene de las evidentes partículas de acero trituradas que pronto pierden toda la atracción ferromagnética que tenían originalmente y permanecen en circulación.  El aluminio también podría contribuir, pero no hay partes giratorias en ese material.

Hay evidencia de un desmontaje de la caja de engranajes Ioniq de que el imán interno (no reparable) no está recolectando partículas de desgaste como debería.  También tenemos evidencia de que el aceite negro no es solo un problema durante el período de rodaje, sino que persiste hasta por lo menos 60 000 km.

Con respecto a la aparición del ruido, existe la posibilidad de que, en un pequeño número de casos, el daño causado a los rodamientos por las partículas recirculantes provoque una falla más avanzada del rodamiento, de modo que el conductor perciba un ruido, o a veces un rodamiento se atasque y la pista de rodadura exterior gire.  en la carcasa de aluminio, creando un espacio libre.  Tenemos cuatro resultados de análisis de aceite usado de propietarios que muestran un alto contenido de aluminio que no se puede explicar de otra manera.

Alrededor de 10 de nosotros hemos instalado tapones de drenaje magnéticos del mercado de accesorios y pronto sabremos si eso ayuda en una distancia de 10,000 km.  Me di cuenta de que ayuda durante un período de 2000 km y espero que también sea una solución para la distancia más larga.

Sin duda animaría a todos los propietarios de Kona/Niro a cambiar el aceite como medida de precaución.  Actualmente estamos pensando que 2.000 y 10.000 kms son puntos apropiados.  Con más kms, en cuanto puedas.  También se recomienda agregar un enchufe magnético siempre que sea de muy alta calidad.  Votex DP007 M18x1.5 de Amazon es el mejor que hemos encontrado y que hemos estado usando.

Si la traducción de Google no funciona bien en mi texto, no dude en solicitar una aclaración.

CitarRegarding the 2023 eNiro, I'm sure we will hear more about this as time goes on.  One journalist on YouTube claims it's because Kia wanted to reduce the acceleration to make driving more comfortable. 

In any case, my interest is understanding if the reason provided to Malian for the Kona gearbox failure is the actual root cause, or is it just someone's guess.  The axial interference cause has not been raised before on other Kona forums and the new TSB from Hyundai (link below) intended to address this issue doesn't mention this cause nor checking the gear oil.

Since November 2021 myself and nearly 20 other global Kona owners have changed the gear oil and 100% have found it black and containing particles.  These are cars built from 2018 all the way to 2022.  In some cases the change is done at as little as 3,000 km, others over 100,000 km.

Black oil is never a normal condition in a simple gearbox and certainly not at low kms.  The root cause is not determined but I think it's clear that the blackness probably comes from the evident crushed steel particles which soon lose all the ferromagnetic attraction they originally had and remain in circulation.  Aluminium could also be a contributor but there are no rotating parts in that material.

There is evidence from one Ioniq gearbox teardown that the internal magnet (non-serviceable) is not collecting wear particles as it should.  We also have evidence that the black oil is not just an issue over the break-in period but persists to at least 60,000 km.

Regarding the onset of noise, there is a possibility that in a small number of cases the damage caused to bearings by re-circulating particles triggers more advanced bearing failure such that the driver notices a noise, or a bearing jams sometimes and the outer raceway spins in the aluminium housing, creating a clearance.  We have four used oil analysis results from owners that all show a high aluminium content that cannot be explained any other way.

About 10 of us have installed aftermarket magnetic drain plugs and we will soon know if that helps over a 10,000 km distance.  I found myself that it does help over a 2,000 km period and am hopeful that it's a fix for the longer distance as well.

I would certainly encourage all Kona/Niro owners to change the oil as a matter of precaution.  We are currently thinking that 2,000 and 10,000 kms are appropriate points.  With higher kms, as soon as you can.  Adding a magnetic plug is recommended too as long as it's very high quality. Votex DP007 M18x1.5 from Amazon is the best one we have found and have been using.

If the Google translation doesn't work well on my text, please feel free to ask for clarification.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10211676-0001.pdf

Cita de: Dakota en Junio 01, 2022, 05:19:32 PM
El nuevo Eniro tiene plataforma y motor diferente, el actual tiene 204Cv y 395 nm, el nuevo 204Cv y 255 nm, bastante menos par

As a new member, I'll first apologize for posting in English but I want to stay in touch with global Kona EV issues.

You're perceptive to have noticed that drop in torque for the new 2023 Niro.  I suspect that's not a mistake and that the next Kona will have the same handicap.  My thinking is that it's intended to reduce gearbox complaints.